Using your voice to better communicate your ideas to the world with Brenden Kumarasamy

Today we get to talk with Brenden from Master Talks, and we are going to talk about tips and tricks to help us with our public speaking, going live, and connecting with the audience.  Brenden has one unique goal - to help you overcome your fear of public speaking so that you can use your voice to better communicate your ideas to the world. Today we will discuss: Tips and tricks that will 10x your communications skills.   Understanding how communication is everything we do. Understanding the pros have done this 100’s of times, so don’t beat yourself up. The 3 biggest tips for your Facebook Lives and other presentations. So today, we are thinking big into our communication skills. Get in touch with Brenden Kumarasamy. https://www.mastertalk.ca/ https://www.youtube.com/c/MasterTalks/featured https://www.instagram.com/masteryourtalk/   Connect with Sean Osborn at Thinking Big Coaching http://www.thinkingbigcoaching.com https://www.instagram.com/thinkingbigcoaching/ https://www.facebook.com/thinkingbigcoaching/   Thanks for listening! It means a lot to me and to the guests. If you enjoyed listening then please take a second to rate the show on iTunes.  Every podcaster will tell you that iTunes reviews drive listeners to our shows so please let me know what you thought and make sure you subscribe using your favorite podcast player. Until next week, remember to always think big Episode Transcription 8uIYpcE7SxSCR8rSv83O Thinking BIG Podcast with Guest Brenden [00:00:00] Sean Osborn - Thinking Big:  I want to welcome Brendan to the show today. He's actually the host of master talk on YouTube and it is a fantastic YouTube channel, on public speaking. And I know I'm like a lot of people out there. Public speaking is probably one of the hardest things for people to do. Most people would literally rather die than get up and do public speaking. I remember the first time I had to get up and do public speaking and not in a corporate environment, I'm okay. In a corporate environment and, in conference rooms and stuff like that. But actual public speaking, I was terrified that I could not stop shaking. And it's one of those things. And one of my mentors actually had told me a long time ago that the person at the front of the room with the marker is the one making the money. And what he meant by that is the person that's up there at the front doing the speaking is the one that has the influence [00:01:00] on the people within the room. So again, I absolutely want to welcome you Brendan to the show and tell us a little bit about master talk and what, how you got started in doing that Brenden - Master Talk: Absolutely Sean thanks for having me. So I, like you mentioned, I have a YouTube channel called master talk where I help people through communication skills and how I got stuck. It was when I was in university, I used to do these things called case competitions. Think of it like professional sports, but for nerds. So other guys, my age were playing football or soccer, some other sport. I channeled that competitive spirit. To presentations. So for three years, I presented hundreds of times coached dozens of people in their communication skill. So when I graduated and I got a job in corporate America, I guess in my case, corporate Canada, some based in Canada, I just asked myself a simple question, which was how do I make a difference in the world? And that's when the idea for the YouTube channel came to be, because I realized a lot of the [00:02:00] communication information out there was really bad. You hear advice like, Oh Sean, you should be yourself. Making videos in my mother's basement. One thing led to another and the rest is history. Sean Osborn - Thinking Big: Oh, fantastic. Yeah. And did you see when you were in college? What gave you the idea? Did you see people actually struggling with trying to get up and doing to do public speaking presentations? What kind of, where did you see that? And clicking your mind saying, Hey, I can actually help people live better. I can help people do this and have them actually be more fulfilled and really more successful to me. You cannot be successful. In a corporate environment in much any environment, if you can't communicate and you can't get up, you can't speak, you just can't be very successful. I don't think, to me, it's, to me, it's one of the core values that I wish they taught heavily in school, which they don't. Brenden - Master Talk: Yeah. And I completely agree with you on that one, for sure. The way that I think about the Shaun is when I started doing these competitions. So just to give [00:03:00] you an idea, the tie in with the corporate world, this is what a case competition is. Essentially is a business gives you a problem and you have three hours to solve it and present a solution to a board of executives. So people do that for fun and university. It's an odd thing. And there's this weird international competitions where people fly out from 19 countries around the world to give these types of presentation. It's really bizarre. And it was the best three years of my life also. But to build on that think of me as the in-house speech coach for that competition. So when I competed the first year, I wasn't really good, obviously, I was kinda trying to figure out how to do this, but I entered the second year, much like sports. You start to take a more mature, more mentorship role. As you get older within an organization as new fresh individuals start entering the program. In this case, it was a presentation program. So I started coaching those people. And then over time, in those three years, I was the speech coach for pretty much everyone who was new to the program. And as I was nearing graduation, I was getting started to worry because the [00:04:00] technology consulting and jumping into the corporate world, I kept noticing a consistent theme of out of all the students. I coach, I probably coached me 50 people in three years and the consistent threat theme, but rather question, they kept asking me that never had a good answer myself was how did you learn how to speak? And I kinda just said I just learned, I'm self-taught and I've done hundreds of presentations, but because they kept asking me, I wondered what resources actually exist out there. It seems like people like to look this up and watch it. So I started watching a lot of my competitors, YouTube channels, who PhDs and the subject who, or who had decades of experience. And I just kept vomiting in my mouth. To be honest, it was too academic. Wasn't practical. And for the younger demographic, it was useless because they couldn't understand the complex lingo. So I got so frustrated that it started making videos basement with no budget and with the phone. And then a year later I ended up coaching a lot of executives and developing a practice out of it as well. Sean Osborn - Thinking Big: And I actually absolutely love stories like that, [00:05:00] where. People get into business and they, or they get into doing something that they love. They don't know how they're going to do it. They don't have all the technology. They don't have all the stuff figured out. They don't have. But you wanted to help and you've found a way to help and you got better by, by doing that. Cause obviously your stuff is extremely professional. Definitely not done in the basement and definitely not done, so you just see you've gone from there. But if people don't start somewhere, we never off the ground. We never do it. So just going out, I love that because just going out and yeah. Doing it, get you better now. One question. So how do you think the difference between presenting live and presenting in front of a camera? The difference in that, especially now with, with what's going on in the world and, people are having to obviously social distance and there's not a lot of big live events and there's not a lot of big, public speaking things. I actually find it harder. To sit in front of a camera to do a [00:06:00] presentation, to do something then I do in real life. So when I'm in, when I'm on a stage and I'm talking with people, I can feel the room. I can feel the energy, it's either you do it or you don't. There's no going back. You're up there. You're live. When I'm in front of a camera, I absolutely frightened. To even start to push the play or push push the record. So w what do you see the difference in, difference between live virtual and live in real Brenden - Master Talk: Yeah, absolutely. I would say the biggest difference in the two, Sean is in the online world, you can't gauge your audience's reaction. So what does this mean? Let's say I was in person. I was giving you and your company, your family, a workshop on communication. And to say, joke, two things will have been in that instance. One is you'll laugh at the joke. I'll say, wow, Brendan's such a funny guy. We're number two. Which is much more likely you look at me and say, wow, this person should [00:07:00] really not be seeing any jokes, but either way I can gauge your reaction in real time and adapt my presentation. As my presentation goes on. I don't have that luxury in the online world, because if you're on a zoom call with all the cameras off, if you're presenting on camera and there's nobody there it's much harder for you to gauge how your audience is reacting. Especially when they're not in the room. So how are you supposed to navigate those types of situations? So a couple of easy tips. I was like to give out one, always keep your eyes on the lens of the camera. So one way I do that is I take a picture of favorite food or a favorite person that I like. And that always forces me to look at the lens in that way. It's a good artificial trick you can implement. Second one is get on a phone call with one of the people that will be sitting in that zoom call. So we have a feeling of who's going to be there, what their needs and expectations are, what do they aspire to be? And you can always picture that person. So it's a lot easier for you to present energetically for them, even if you [00:08:00] don't see them on the other side. Number three is always assumed good intentions from your audience, whether it's in person or online. This is a lot more important than it seems, but it's not something you'll get overnight. So for example, with me, when I started doing podcasts myself as a guest, it was really bizarre. Essentially what a podcast is a stranger. You don't know, asks you a bunch of questions about your life, does an unhealthy amount of research on you. And you have to answer as if you know that person. So when I started, it was very frightening for me, but when you get into those off off show discussions with the hosts, after you realized that. They're really just doing this to benefit their communities there. And everyone's just a really nice person. So my perception of my, the hosts that ended up, I ended up speaking to, and this analogy applies for any presentation that you do in the virtual space or really anything at all transitions very quickly from who's the Shawn guy to, wow. I really love what Sean's doing, what the thinking big podcast is really helping us communities think bigger and achieve greater goals. So I'm going to assume as if I've known him for five years and speak to him in that way. [00:09:00] It's not something you get overnight, but over time, that belief becomes true. Sean Osborn - Thinking Big: And that takes a lot of time to develop. Now, one of the things that I actually do like right now, I actually do use a teleprompter, but not for words, I actually have you in front of the teleprompter. So I'm actually looking right at you and you're actually. Right behind your right in front of the camera. That's the only way that I can truly connect with the people that I'm talking to because I had where I had the camera above the, above the monitor and you always look up, you can't, it just was a natural I'm the type of person that I actually have to look at someone, in the eyes when I'm talking to them. To, you know what you said, it that's how you read how people are taking in what you're doing. And that's how you read how they, how they're interpreting what you're saying. But I personally, I have to do that. I can't, I hate it. So I do some podcasts, matter of fact, where it's just audio only. And it's just [00:10:00] dry it's absolutely dry. I know the people that listen to the podcast are only listening to it, but I get so much more out of the conversation when I can see the other person, when I can see you, Brandon, we're sitting here looking at each other, eye to eye, even though we're not in the same room. And I think that is very powerful for really any type of communication, especially public speaking, but. I see that's going to be a huge, or that is a huge problem for people that are trying to do video. I don't know why I'm so scared. Why get more scared in front of a video camera? Then in front of an audience, I guess I, maybe I used to be afraid in front of an audience and maybe I've just grown and I get used to it. But I'm terrified in front of cameras. I don't know. I try tricks. I tried doing different things, but getting used to and going live. So to me, I'd love to get your thoughts on how you go live on things like Facebook and [00:11:00] things like, YouTube and stuff, because. It's one thing to sit there and record something 20 times until you think it's good. And then you post it, but that I was, man, I'm telling you the first time I went live, I was scared to death. What do you do a lot of your, do you do much stuff live Brenden - Master Talk: I don't do a lot of live presentations. I do mostly speaking engagements that are alive online, but I definitely understand where you're coming from and happy to talk about the differences between camera and live because I get it. And I would say the big difference there, Sean is. For actually, let me give you an easy win here for the camera. There's actually an easy trick to present. This is a of my videos alone. There's a guy. There's yeah, there's a guy behind the camera. Sean Osborn - Thinking Big: Oh, wow. See, now that is a great, that is a fantastic tip. So you actually have someone there that you're actually talking Brenden - Master Talk: Yeah, exactly. Sean Osborn - Thinking Big: That's a Brenden - Master Talk: Yeah. And don't get me wrong by the [00:12:00] first year. It was just me. One man show had no budget for anything. I was just a broke student to, this is before my production and my business ramped up. But when I started, yeah, it was just me and a camera hated my life. It was so bad. I didn't like the video making process. I couldn't talk to anybody. I was speaking to nobody. I just couldn't show up. I, but I still tried my best. And I did all right. My first, sir, when I brought Danny my best friend to do all my production and I just gave him a chunk of my salary to do all of that. Oh, it just became so much more enjoyable. So we'd have dinner after and lunch, it'd just be fun, a lot more relationship building. So that's my recommendation. Obviously you don't need to have a professional person doing this. You could have a friend, a wife, a husband, a family member, or just do that for you. So that would be one thing. Yeah, go ahead. Sean Osborn - Thinking Big: So what so what are someone that's wanting to either get into public speaking or they're needing to get into public speaking with either, their job. I know you do coaching for corporate people too, but what do you, what are some of the best ways to start? Getting into being able to [00:13:00] do public speaking from a, I think from a personal development standpoint or not from the technical side of, Oh, you need to contact an agency to get, on stages and stuff from a personal development standpoint, what are the best things for someone to start to get the ability or to get the skill set to doing public speaking? What are the best ways to Brenden - Master Talk: Yeah let's go into two directions here. So one for people who don't want to be keynote speakers and for the others who do those who don't wanna be keynote speakers. This is my pitch to you. My pitch is understand that communication is everything that you do. It's not just about presentations, it's every interaction that you have, the people around you, the tough conversations you have with your family, the dinner conversation you have with your friends, the tip that you give the delivery guy when he comes and gives you pizza. Every interaction is all about communication. And once you realized that the only question left to answer is the following. [00:14:00] How would the world change if you were an exceptional communicator, how would the world be different? If you were top 1% speaker that answer's going to be different for everybody, for some it's about having this big YouTube channel and for others, it's just spending more time with their family and understanding how to interact with them in a more healthier way. Find that why and find that reason you'll be able to find communication work on a way that's comfortable for you. That's one side other side is you want to go pro that's a totally different conversation. If you want to go pro the big piece of advice I have for you is understand that professionals present the same presentation. Hundreds of times, Tony Robbins has been doing the same seminar for 40 years. 40 years, same seminar unleash the power within three days, workshop, you walk on fire. He yells at you the first day. Always the same thing. Repeat, repeat. So if your goal is to be a pro, you need to figure out one [00:15:00] topic that you want to be a grand master at. So the topic I ended up choosing for my life that I'm still trying to do well obviously I'm very far away from Tony, but I'm getting there is communication. I want to be, I want to be the number one person in that space. So for you, what is that thing? Focus in, dial in on that one, talk a master it, and then you'll, you can get paid to speak and be a pro. Sean Osborn - Thinking Big: How do you think, so for me communicate, or, communication is really about connecting. How do you go about making sure that when you're communicating with someone, when you're talking with someone, because a lot of people sit there and talk, but not a lot of people actually connect. That's not something. How do you go about making sure when you're talking with someone that you're actually connecting with them? Brenden - Master Talk: Yeah. Once again I've a pro hack here solving the symptom versus the issue. I think most people, most humans struggle with this idea of how do I connect with everybody? Cause it can be exhausting to listen to people you don't actually [00:16:00] particularly like. So my advice, because that's more for advanced people. I would say the chapter one is to find your tribe and connect with them first, because those are the people that you're more inclined to, to have a relationship with, to, to have the same interests as them. And you'll also be more inclined to ask them the questions you actually want to have answers to. And lesson to them. So for me, just, you don't use me as an example here, but I'm just using it just to demonstrate. I love personal development conferences, Tony Robbins seminars, mine Valley events, Lewis house events, just like places where people want to get better. So the community there, I usually. Gel with pretty much anyone there in the room. I just get up, talk to anybody and I immediately liked them because we all have the same values. So it's all about picking the right events, but that analogy applies for anybody. If you're somebody who. Loves collecting buttons for some random reason. I highly encourage you to go to a button meetup. Talk about the different buttons they're collecting. It's a lot [00:17:00] easier for you to interact with those people and start conversations. And that's really how you'll get rid of your social anxiety and get comfortable talking to people. You have zero interests in common with. Sean Osborn - Thinking Big: It's you have to be. Comfortable just communicating and talking with the people around you, let alone up on stage. Cause that's just a whole different level of sitting there. That's a great tip that really connecting with the people, people in the audience caring about the people who you're with before you can really get up and talk to them. What what are some of the best tips? What do you do? How do you prepare? If you're going to get up and you're going to do a presentation or you're going to do. A talk, how do you prepare for that? Now I understand if you're a pro you've done this, thousands of times it's the same thing, but if you're fresh and you're just getting started, what are some of the things that we can do to help that first time or help get up? What, or how do you prep for a talker or a presentation? Brenden - Master Talk: Absolutely. So [00:18:00] here's, if you do this one technique from boat to share, it will 10 X or communication skills overnight, especially if you want to be a keynoter and the technique is called the puzzle method. Sean public speaking is like a jigsaw puzzle. Those thousand piece puzzles in a box, he put together like a puzzle piece. So if I , family or something, which pieces would you start with first and why? Sean Osborn - Thinking Big: Yeah I would start with the edges because that's the that's the easiest thing to Brenden - Master Talk: Exactly right. And you're absolutely right. It's not a trick question, right? You do the edges for us. They're easy. You work you in the middle. So the question we'd ask ourselves is why don't we do that in public speaking, we have a presentation, the boardroom in the classroom, in the conference room. So what do we do? Start with the middle. We shove a bunch of content chefs of shove. Then we get to the presentation. We ramble. We get to the last slide. And then it sounds something like this. The thanks. So that's [00:19:00] probably 95% of the presentations I hear, but there's an easy way to fix this. And the way you fix this is treat your presentations like a Chickasaw puzzle. Start with the edges. First practice, your introduction, 50 times, not three times, not five times do it 50 times. It's actually not that hard. Your introductions admit it. It'll take you an hour. Same thing with the conclusion. What's a great movie with a terrible ending. Last time I checked terrible movie. 50 times the conclusion and only two hours of practice, you'll transform your keynote and look at your presentation and go, wow. I can never introduce like that before. The way that I conclude in this. Speech is so marvelous, then tackle the middle. And then when you tackle the middle two simple questions, we're keeping it very simple today. The first question is what's your key idea. If you were to summarize your entire presentation in one sentence, what would that sentence be or better? [00:20:00] If you were to summarize your life's work in one sentence, what would that sentence be? And then the second part, which we'll spend the rest of your time working on is what is the best way of defending that key idea? Is it a quote? Is it an analogy you won't get it the first time, but as you continuously test and do it hundreds of times, dozens of times, or even just a couple of times, you'll have a pretty solid keynote just with that framework. Sean Osborn - Thinking Big: man. That is some I'm telling you that is a. Fantastic tip D when I do presentation stuff that alone will help so many people. So I'm trying to pay attention to the camera. I'm trying to look at you, but I'm trying to write stuff down too. I'm taking notes right now. I'm taking massive notes. So what do you now, one of my problems that I'd run into when I do when I do public speaking, especially if I'm not prepared enough, is I am always afraid. Then I'm going to forget stuff. [00:21:00] So I will like, if I'm doing a presentation for, a company all just have a presentation of slides full of, 20 bullet points for each, each slide and it's just like communication or upload, but I'm afraid that I'm going to forget stuff. So that's why I always want it on the slides. And that to me just makes for such a boring. Blah presentation or speaking event that, w so what do you do you use a lot of like props for speaking like a, presentation type stuff in the background, or what is your preferred method to, I don't want to say map out your talk. Like how do you map out? If you've got a 15 minute talk or a 20 minute talk what type of tips do you have for In your mind mapping out where you're going through the, do the story. Brenden - Master Talk: So the way that I think about this, because every expert is going to give you a different opinion here. I usually don't like to prescribe. And the reason I don't [00:22:00] is because every speaker's very different with the way that they think about it. Like Joseph Campbell would talk about the hero's journey, Donald Miller, we're talking about that journey and how that hero moves across. Nancy's got her own thing for me. The big thing is I don't, I'm not a big fan of frameworks for him. The big thing is. If you want to do be a master communicator, you need to fail a couple of times. What does that mean? That means as you're presenting, you need to constantly have dinner with your audience. And I'm very big on the dinners. Like connecting personally with the people that you're seeking to serve to understand if the ideas are actually landing. Now, I'll give you a personal example. So when I started master talk, I was very insecure. Not because of my skill, but because of how young I was coaching executives double my age when I was probably 22 or 23. So it was very intimidating for me. So in order to compensate for the insecurity, I used to just gloat about my clients at the beginning to be shown as credible. And I say, Oh yeah, I worked for this client, did the CEO thing, and then an a, a six-year-old asked me the best question. I think I've gotten into my career. And the question was, what's the [00:23:00] CEO. And I said, ah, yeah, you're right. What is a CEO? That's a good point. And I realized from her question, That nobody really cares about your credentials. They only care about the value. If you deliver your value with confidence, people don't care how old you are, the right people. Anyways. So from that experience, I changed my tune from just talking about my clients. I left all of that out of the conversation and I replaced it with a personal story about how I used to struggle with communication, because I grew up in a city called Montreal and Montreal. You need to know how to speak French. So I went to a French school, so my whole life. I presented a language. I didn't even know it. So if I can master communication, anyone can, because that method. Oh, presenting was better at defending my key idea, which is convincing anyone that they can master communication in a purely authentic. But didn't get that the first time I got that the 25th time after the six-year-old kind of got me in with the right feedback. So you have to understand that it's an iterative process and how you tell your stories, but [00:24:00] eventually once you've done it enough times, you can jump up keynotes out of thin air. Sean Osborn - Thinking Big: and one of the things that I noticed people, especially newer in doing talks is they will, if they've got a 10 minute talk or a 15 minute talk, they will spend 90% of it on the technical, the data the stuff, and very little time on the story. And. That to me that's so that was a hard lesson learned that people learn. People want to know based on stories. It's all about the story of, and how you can intertwine, the story with what you're trying to teach, but sitting there for 15 minutes, just giving them backed up to fact that per fact is just. And I see the thing is I see so many people do it and it's, to me, it's all about the story and all about the storytelling and how to me, the best speakers are the best storytellers. It's, that's just for me, [00:25:00] at least that's how I learn. And I actually pay attention much more to people if they're telling stories, obviously than not than just trying to shove facts down my, down my throat of whatever they're trying to teach. Brenden - Master Talk: And I agree it right. I think a good way of thinking about this, the whole content versus delivery thing. I want you all to think about your high school presentations and your high school teachers. How much do we actually remember from high school? I don't know about you, but I don't remember much. But why is that? The content is so good. The teachers are so educational, they're very well-educated. They have master degrees, so what's the problem. But the opposite is also true. When you think about your favorite speakers in the world, it could be Tony, it could be Bernie Brown. It could be anyone you put your finger on and go ask somebody in the crowd. You go, Tommy, what is it about this speaker that got you excited. Tommy's going to look at us and go. Was, I'm not sure, Brent, it was just a way that he made me [00:26:00] feel or she made me feel it was well, what's the lesson then Tommy, me, what did you learn from this speech? All I learned that I could do anything I want. So even the best speakers in the world, you don't remember much either. You only remember one or two key ideas, but it's those one or two key ideas that changes your life, which is still important. But the lesson is the following provided your key ideas. Solid. You need to spend 99% of your time on delivered to make sure that key idea lens. Sean Osborn - Thinking Big: Yeah. And that, so one of the things that, that I've been taught and not from a speaking standpoint, just from a communication standpoint, with your tribe and with your with the people that you communicate with is people need to hear, things five, six, seven times before they actually get it. Now, when you're doing, when you're doing a talk, do you actually what you were saying, do you actually go over. Maybe the same thing in different ways during a speech to get a point [00:27:00] across. Brenden - Master Talk: You got it? Absolutely. So I've probably presented the same keynote 350 times now. So give or take, and in those 350 shots, I've definitely experimented with different slides, different ways of thinking. But now I have a pretty robust. Standardized way of thinking about that specific Keno, but you're right in the sense that when they create a new one, let's see when I do my storytelling workshop, I reworked that a lot and I'm still reworking that one today. Cause I've probably done that one 75 times give or take. So I'm still refining that one, but that's the point I'm driving is every time you open a new slot, a new slide deck, you always have to keep refining. You have to keep applying the methodology. Of listening to your customers, listening to your audience and seeing if they actually understood the idea. But the beauty is once you get the hang of this, it's going to be much easier for you to take a presentation from zero to hero in a much shorter period of time. Sean Osborn - Thinking Big: Yeah, and I think so it's one of the things that, you know, and you touched on this is there's a lot of speakers that I've gone and I've listened to, or people that are [00:28:00] teaching, whatever it is. I don't necessarily remember all the stuff. They said, very little of the stuff they said, but I do remember. Key things on how they made me feel. And you had mentioned that and it's we don't, I don't remember details, but I remember feelings much better than detail. You know what, or if you had, three tips on public speaking, what are the three biggest tips for someone to, to do To start doing their public speaking. What are the three things that, that you absolutely. If you screw any of these three things up you're going to die. Brenden - Master Talk: So to keep it simple, apply puzzle, right? Start with the edges first, master your intro, your conclusion, dive for the middle. That's one. Number two, apply puzzle to one singular topic in presentation. As best as you can. So in your case, on let's, I was coaching you for you. The advice is simple. Make a presentation on your own podcast. What are you trying to achieve with [00:29:00] thinking big who's your core audience? What do you aspire for that audience and make a presentation out of that? Cause you can use that as promotional material and the beauty is that it's repeatable. You can spin it up as many times as you want. And after a couple of dozens of times, you'll be a master at communicating your own podcast to the world. And then number three is have dinner with your audience. I'm always astounded, whether you're a content creator or a business owner the lack of awareness and time that people spend actually interacting with the people that already listened to them. A common question I get is Brendon, how do I get as many subscribers as you and you, your YouTube channel, how to get thousands of followers, we need to understand. That when I asked the question back to, then I go, how many people listen to your podcasts to go? Like 50. And I go, okay, how many people do know? And that 52. Okay. And that's the point I want to drive. The third biggest mistake people make in public speaking is they don't talk enough with their audience. How are you supposed to make an elite level presentation? If you don't understand your audience at a level that they don't even understand [00:30:00] themselves, that's the secret. Sean Osborn - Thinking Big: Oh, and that is huge. I'm telling you that is absolutely huge because most people will. I don't care if you're developing courses. If you're developing speeches. Most people will spend all this time developing a speech or developing a course without ever talking to their tribe because we think we know what they want. We think we know what they want to hear. We think we know what they want to learn. And without going in front of your tribe, without going in front of the people, listening to you. I will get it wrong every single time. I think I know what they want, but until I go out and talk with them, I get it wrong every single time. So that, that is absolutely huge. And Brendan, I really want to thank you for for being on the podcast and everyone make sure that you go and I'm going to put this in the show notes. The links are going to be all there. But go to master talks on YouTube, but I'm telling you it is a fantastic [00:31:00] channel tons. And tons of content on everything from public speaking to you. I know you just did one on online TEDx stuff. So let me ask you, so one question, what is the best way for someone to grow or get onto like a TEDx talk? W what is the best thing to do? Brenden - Master Talk: I would say the general piece of advice with Ted is prepared the speech before you get invited for the talk? That's the big thing I would focus on my, with my expertise is you need to start thinking about your Ted talk years in advance. Because if you start preparing your Ted at this, when you get invited for it, you won't nail it. You just don't have enough time unless you like quit your job. And all you do is the Ted talk. The people who actually nailed their Ted talk, I've done it hundreds of times. Most of them, not all of them. There's always exceptions to the rule, but the general idea with Ted is prepare for Ted before Ted calls. You. Sean Osborn - Thinking Big: that's. That's good advice. That is great advice again, [00:32:00] Brendan. Thank you so much for for being on the podcast and. Master talk, people go watch, mash, talk, go watch the videos. They're fantastic videos and I'm telling you they are. So I see a lot of content on YouTube. That's on, of not professional and all of your stuff is extremely professional. It's very good. It's very well done. So congratulations to that. It's I see huge things for that, because it is to me it's one of the most, I don't know if it's the most sought after or most underused. Type of skillset is the speaking and so absolutely necessary. So thank you. Thank you for putting that content out. It's wonderful content.